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	<title>Comments on: Does local always = sustainable?</title>
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	<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Continuing the cod debate &#124; boston localvores</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-135314</link>
		<dc:creator>Continuing the cod debate &#124; boston localvores</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-135314</guid>
		<description>[...] couple months back we had a pretty lively discussion here about whether the CSF was fulfilling the localvore community&#8217;s expectations of sustainable, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] couple months back we had a pretty lively discussion here about whether the CSF was fulfilling the localvore community&#8217;s expectations of sustainable, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Here&#8217;s a better response to the Cod question &#171; boston localvores, the blog</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125506</link>
		<dc:creator>Here&#8217;s a better response to the Cod question &#171; boston localvores, the blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125506</guid>
		<description>[...] Does local always = sustainable?  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does local always = sustainable?  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: other david</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125505</link>
		<dc:creator>other david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125505</guid>
		<description>The choice is not one between CSF and buying 'random' fish at the supermarket. This is a market economy so you should exercise your power as a consumer.  

Don't let anyone else lead you blindly to the trough.  Instead do your homework, shop around, and make better choices. For example, the vast majority of cod in local groceries comes from Alaska- this is a MUCH better choice than what the Gloucester draggers pound off the ocean's floor .  There are other options as well- stripped bass, bluefish, talapia, trout, herring, black sea bass, mussels, oysters, and so on. Much of this is local, some of it farmed inland, at infinitely more sustainable. 

Come on people- don't take a handout of some slimy basket of scrod and feel good about it because it comes to you by means of some co-op. If you've ever seen these draggers out pounding on our environment, you wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. 

And by the way- our local cod is infested with worms. It is pretty gross.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The choice is not one between CSF and buying &#8216;random&#8217; fish at the supermarket. This is a market economy so you should exercise your power as a consumer.  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let anyone else lead you blindly to the trough.  Instead do your homework, shop around, and make better choices. For example, the vast majority of cod in local groceries comes from Alaska- this is a MUCH better choice than what the Gloucester draggers pound off the ocean&#8217;s floor .  There are other options as well- stripped bass, bluefish, talapia, trout, herring, black sea bass, mussels, oysters, and so on. Much of this is local, some of it farmed inland, at infinitely more sustainable. </p>
<p>Come on people- don&#8217;t take a handout of some slimy basket of scrod and feel good about it because it comes to you by means of some co-op. If you&#8217;ve ever seen these draggers out pounding on our environment, you wouldn&#8217;t touch it with a ten foot pole. </p>
<p>And by the way- our local cod is infested with worms. It is pretty gross.</p>
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		<title>By: jill</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125499</link>
		<dc:creator>jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125499</guid>
		<description>Excuse my naivety (and I am very interested in being either corrected or guided).... However let me take the chance and ask (in theory), if communities were to eat more locally caught fish (even those that are currently in precarious situations), and the fisherman were eventually able to financially sustain themselves mostly on selling to their own communities.,,,wouldn't there therefore be a decreasing  need to sell to large companies in mass quantities, and thereby fishing only what we need/eat and allowing the fish stock to replenish.  This would take a significant amount of time and culture shift but isn't this the goal? It seems to me that sticking with the CSF and encouraging its growth would be beneficial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse my naivety (and I am very interested in being either corrected or guided)&#8230;. However let me take the chance and ask (in theory), if communities were to eat more locally caught fish (even those that are currently in precarious situations), and the fisherman were eventually able to financially sustain themselves mostly on selling to their own communities.,,,wouldn&#8217;t there therefore be a decreasing  need to sell to large companies in mass quantities, and thereby fishing only what we need/eat and allowing the fish stock to replenish.  This would take a significant amount of time and culture shift but isn&#8217;t this the goal? It seems to me that sticking with the CSF and encouraging its growth would be beneficial.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125481</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125481</guid>
		<description>I agree with the sentiment that the CSF is probably better than buying fish at random at the local supermarket, but how much better? My naivete led me to think (i.e. hope) that trawling would not be part of this so-called sustainable fishery.  And I don't believe that their response to Adam's inquiry was entirely ingenuous.  At best, there may be some honest self-denial.  

I agree that we should petition the CSF to act more sustainably. Perhaps we could even contact Mr. Grescoe who might be interested in joining this dialogue and supporting our cause.  I'd love to see this become a truly sustainable program.  If not, I won't be renewing my membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the sentiment that the CSF is probably better than buying fish at random at the local supermarket, but how much better? My naivete led me to think (i.e. hope) that trawling would not be part of this so-called sustainable fishery.  And I don&#8217;t believe that their response to Adam&#8217;s inquiry was entirely ingenuous.  At best, there may be some honest self-denial.  </p>
<p>I agree that we should petition the CSF to act more sustainably. Perhaps we could even contact Mr. Grescoe who might be interested in joining this dialogue and supporting our cause.  I&#8217;d love to see this become a truly sustainable program.  If not, I won&#8217;t be renewing my membership.</p>
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		<title>By: Linsey</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125478</link>
		<dc:creator>Linsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125478</guid>
		<description>I've struggled with my membership in the CSF because of all the cod they've been delivering. I've actually NOT picked up my share for the last several weeks because I simply could not stand the idea that I would be contributing to the further decline of our once bountiful cod fishery (the excess shares go to a local soup kitchen). I believe the incentives are misaligned between the CSF and the fishermen - the tail is wagging the dog. The CSF seems to have little control over which fish is distributed or how the fish is caught. And yet they are paying premium prices - why can't they use their buyer power to force change?

I subscribed to the CSF with the hope that we would be receiving more sustainable fish - the non-stop delivery of cod has been, in my mind, a tremendous disappointment. 

I joined for the same reasons you did. But at this point I'm nothing short of frustrated and fed up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve struggled with my membership in the CSF because of all the cod they&#8217;ve been delivering. I&#8217;ve actually NOT picked up my share for the last several weeks because I simply could not stand the idea that I would be contributing to the further decline of our once bountiful cod fishery (the excess shares go to a local soup kitchen). I believe the incentives are misaligned between the CSF and the fishermen - the tail is wagging the dog. The CSF seems to have little control over which fish is distributed or how the fish is caught. And yet they are paying premium prices - why can&#8217;t they use their buyer power to force change?</p>
<p>I subscribed to the CSF with the hope that we would be receiving more sustainable fish - the non-stop delivery of cod has been, in my mind, a tremendous disappointment. </p>
<p>I joined for the same reasons you did. But at this point I&#8217;m nothing short of frustrated and fed up.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Becker</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125475</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125475</guid>
		<description>Great frickin' discussion. We're members and I completely share all of these concerns. I would enthusiastically endorse a unified request from CSF members that Cape Ann Fresh Catch change its standards. The response from CAFC is inadequate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great frickin&#8217; discussion. We&#8217;re members and I completely share all of these concerns. I would enthusiastically endorse a unified request from CSF members that Cape Ann Fresh Catch change its standards. The response from CAFC is inadequate.</p>
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		<title>By: darry</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125471</link>
		<dc:creator>darry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125471</guid>
		<description>A while back, we, too, read Bottomfeeder. It's a great book. We blogged about how we stopped eating fish as a consequence (though that was more of a statement for effect; we hardly ate much anyway).  I wrote to Taras Grescoe, the author, and asked what we should be doing, and if he supported marine CSAs. Here is what he said: "There's a group called the Ecology Action Centre in Halifax NS that's set up a fishermen's cooperative whereby local people can put in orders and get sustainable seafood from lobstermen, mackerel and herring fishermen. They're really active and leading the way on the issue, I think....As for marine CSAs, there aren't enough, but I'm confident they're coming. I'll keep you posted the more I learn..."

With that endorsement, and with our own thinking brains, we decided that supporting a nascent CSF was an important step to reconnecting eaters with their fish, developing accountability with fisherman and practices, etc. 

I completely agree with Kristi - this CSF is not perfect. And we could not have known ahead of time that we'd be seeing undersized, overfished cod so much. Grescoe certainly advocates eating lower on the food chain, and we hoped that this CSF would subscribe to that philosophy.

Long story short, we agree and are considering, as the result of this dialogue, petitioning the Gloucester CSF to fish less stressed species and buy from ships using more sustainable methods. But we can only do this because we are members. It's not perfect, but it's something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A while back, we, too, read Bottomfeeder. It&#8217;s a great book. We blogged about how we stopped eating fish as a consequence (though that was more of a statement for effect; we hardly ate much anyway).  I wrote to Taras Grescoe, the author, and asked what we should be doing, and if he supported marine CSAs. Here is what he said: &#8220;There&#8217;s a group called the Ecology Action Centre in Halifax NS that&#8217;s set up a fishermen&#8217;s cooperative whereby local people can put in orders and get sustainable seafood from lobstermen, mackerel and herring fishermen. They&#8217;re really active and leading the way on the issue, I think&#8230;.As for marine CSAs, there aren&#8217;t enough, but I&#8217;m confident they&#8217;re coming. I&#8217;ll keep you posted the more I learn&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>With that endorsement, and with our own thinking brains, we decided that supporting a nascent CSF was an important step to reconnecting eaters with their fish, developing accountability with fisherman and practices, etc. </p>
<p>I completely agree with Kristi - this CSF is not perfect. And we could not have known ahead of time that we&#8217;d be seeing undersized, overfished cod so much. Grescoe certainly advocates eating lower on the food chain, and we hoped that this CSF would subscribe to that philosophy.</p>
<p>Long story short, we agree and are considering, as the result of this dialogue, petitioning the Gloucester CSF to fish less stressed species and buy from ships using more sustainable methods. But we can only do this because we are members. It&#8217;s not perfect, but it&#8217;s something.</p>
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		<title>By: kristi</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125470</link>
		<dc:creator>kristi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125470</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

I want to make it clear that I have my own serious concerns about our oceans. To be blunt, they're fucked beyond any point of return. The same is, more or less, true about our agriculture. This is also to say, I'm not sure the CSF is perfect. Or that any CSA is, particularly the meat CSAs. (They're still producing more than we need, 
per person.)

We are deeply entrenched in a system that actively hurts the environment and us. Maybe so entrenched that we can never get out of it. 

However, I'm standing by my local is sustainable, pretty much always, statement. It's *more* sustainable, that's for sure. And in the context of the last 50 years of corporate industrial food, it's our only hope. If a food system is small and managed within proximity to where we live and if consumers are seen as necessary partners to its success , we can ask questions, make demands and see results. But we need to dramatically alter the scale before we can seriously alter the practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.</p>
<p>I want to make it clear that I have my own serious concerns about our oceans. To be blunt, they&#8217;re fucked beyond any point of return. The same is, more or less, true about our agriculture. This is also to say, I&#8217;m not sure the CSF is perfect. Or that any CSA is, particularly the meat CSAs. (They&#8217;re still producing more than we need,<br />
per person.)</p>
<p>We are deeply entrenched in a system that actively hurts the environment and us. Maybe so entrenched that we can never get out of it. </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m standing by my local is sustainable, pretty much always, statement. It&#8217;s *more* sustainable, that&#8217;s for sure. And in the context of the last 50 years of corporate industrial food, it&#8217;s our only hope. If a food system is small and managed within proximity to where we live and if consumers are seen as necessary partners to its success , we can ask questions, make demands and see results. But we need to dramatically alter the scale before we can seriously alter the practices.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://bostonlocalvores.org/archives/477/comment-page-1#comment-125466</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bostonlocalvores.org/blog/?p=477#comment-125466</guid>
		<description>I have to say that I could not, in good mind, become a CSA member for the same reasons, David.
I wish I felt I could support the livelihoods of people who have chosen a field they love, but I feel too strongly that we need to leave the oceans alone now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I could not, in good mind, become a CSA member for the same reasons, David.<br />
I wish I felt I could support the livelihoods of people who have chosen a field they love, but I feel too strongly that we need to leave the oceans alone now.</p>
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